Careful be very careful
Ah, culture DOES matter.
Yeah, Al Sharpton thinks it's pretty f**ked up as well: 'MSNBC Hacks Attack 'Hate Groups' Who Turned Out for Nationwide Chick-fil-A Buycott'.
And thanks for that Valenti find. You can't make this stuff up!!
When I was younger, I never begged my parents to let me get a nose job.
Well, it appears to have been hard on Ms. Valenti, anyway.
What's her problem? Did someone tell her the Muslim Jihad's all male police were coming?
They would give her an attitude adjustment with rods the size of a man's finger and throw in half of a sex change called a cliterectomy at no extra charge.
But she claims she is afraid of the metrosexuals???
So, girls should punch people who make fun of them?
Plastic surgery may not be the optimal solution but it is a solution.
Better yet, use a fist and a smile.
I do think that these parents could've bargained with a surgeon and paid for this surgery themselves. There ar far worse deformities that should take precedence.
A rhetorical fist and a real smile, or real humor.
So let?s teach girls to survive a misogynist culture with a fist, not a smile.
Seems feminists have been doing just that and it doesn't seem to be working out too well.
Going off against the self-esteem cult is not a bad thing, but there's too much of the old Betty Friedan feminism here in its hatred of the idea of a girl being attractive, much less beautiful.
Not to mention the fact that Ms Valenti should have consulted with a few (gasp!!!) men. If she had she would have heard a great old truism:
You go looking for a fight, you will always find one.
Anger isn't beautiful.
I think raising a girl would be particularly challenging in modern American culture, trying to thread her upbringing between the hot princess culture and the androgynous harridan culture without bumping into either one.
Jessica,
Have a Coke and a smile and shut the fuck up.
"So let?s teach girls to survive a misogynist culture with a fist, not a smile."
Because being antisocial is the answer to being picked on. Yeah, I get it (*rolls eyes*).
If the goal is to lower yourself to the level of those you hate, then sure, Valenti's advice is sound. But if you choose to be a better person... well, Valenti doesn't seem to be a good role model for you. Time was, good advice from a good role model involved bettering yourself, not lowering. But I guess being an angry bitch feels better, and of course it's all about feeling better, isn't it?
Yeah, this country is a real bitch for women. Women can work, vote, drive a car, not be mutilated, not be honor killed, live longer than men, have better healthcare than men, not be thought of as a bum if you stay home while your spouse works even if you have no kids, etc.
Here's a quick tip for chicks like Jessica Valenti: grow up! You're an adult now. It's time to act like it. It is NOT everyone else's job to as you you want them to, just as it is NOT your job to act I want you to.
You want to give young women the tools they need to succeed? Teach them how the world actually is, rather than teach them to be spoiled, entitled brats expecting everyone else to make their lives better.
Remind me to be more grateful for not being mutilated and subject to honor killing, 'cause ya know we really really need to be soooo grateful.
Anyone who thinks America is a particularly bad place to raise a girl is either drinking the koolaid or not paying attention.
In many Muslim countries, they would not be taking a knife to your little girl's nose.
Trey
Is Valenti for real?
I despise taking parenting advice from the childless.
Come on Ann! Give us some good Southern Chicken/Bill Clinton breast snark. 2006 was so much fun.
I was afraid that girls had stopped bullying other girls over their looks but after reading JV I see we men & our "misogynist culture" are still calling the shots. Whew!
And I hope my "White Privilege card" is still current - I need a $500,000 interest free loan.
Is it misogynistic when girls bully other girls over their looks?
We have a friend who is a local cosmetic surgeon. He works 4 days a week fixing cosmetic problems for Boomer and Child of Boomer. He makes a lot of money, a really whole lot of money. Every Thursday he leaves his house at 3:30 AM and drives to a childrens hospital in the Bay Area to fix cleft palates and other real problems. He usually gets home about 8:30 PM sometimes later. Nobody knows what he does on Thursday except his wife and a very few of his closest friends. I found out completely by accident. I really don't care who pays for his local work, they are letting him do real charity.
"This is a fucked-up country to grow up in, especially as a girl."
What with all the female circumcisions, stoning of adultresses and rape victims, forced marriages, bride-burnings and all...
...seems that fellow wymyn Anna Wintour and Helen Gurley Brown are at least as much to blame as any knuckle-dragging menfolk.
more importantly, I know that anger and action can be more fulfilling than being beautiful.
Good God, will one of you pansy leftist men take this naive little girl out and get her drunk and give her a orgasm?
Note how ugly inside these people are.
Of course it makes is so easy for them to want to see a decline in your standard of living...
To my mind this is a feel good story. A poor girl who felt bad about her "Dumbo" ears - got them fixed and now feels more happy. We adults may laugh, but teenage girls REALLY get worked up over the slightest physical imperfections.
Ann, I'm linking you up, but isn't this a chance to hammer Valenti about "those breasts" from back in the day. She sure liked pumping up her breasts, which by implication were not "ugly."
She's a hypocrite, if I do say so.
Sounds like the incessant rant by a certain Generation X relative of mine...."Oh this countrrry!**heavy on the sneer** or "It isn't faaaair"! **heavy on the whine**
Occasionally wonder how she would have fared as a pioneer woman...kid on one hip while scrubbing clothes in an ice cold lake, then slopping the hogs after fighting off indians, all before breakfast.
"Is it misogynistic when girls bully other girls over their looks?"
Thank you Geoff.
I'm sure she means the Mean Girls are mean because the boys are mean to them first. Because their ugly. Then they dump on the even uglier girls. Something like that.
Good Lord.
When Valenti writes:
We should tell girls the truth: ?Beautiful? is bullshit, a standard created to make women into good consumers, too busy wallowing in self-loathing to notice that we?re second class citizens.
it's clear that she's totally lacking in historical perspective. The idea of feminine beauty has a long history, and hasn't ever been dependent on a need to make women into consumers. Even things like jewelry and fine clothing have a long history of being exchanged/obtained not by the woman as consumer, but as an inheritance, as brideprice, as gift, etc.
We?re saying that being beautiful is something worth having when we should be telling them a culture that demands as much is toxic.
This is just ridiculous. The culture doesn't demand female beauty at all, as as human being with eyes can see looking around any American city. This isn't like plastic-surgery paradise South Korea. And the notion that valorizing beauty is somehow inappropriate is bizarre. Valenti's implied vision of the proper shape of society is abhorrent -- grey, dreary, and stripped of beauty.
They simply assured me I was beautiful the way I was. But here?s the thing: I knew that wasn?t true.
First, everyone looks awkward as an adolescent.
Second, when people tell their children that even ugliness can be pretty, that's totally true. Yes, I know that's Japan, where being snaggletoothed can be a charm-point (yaeba), but still. Even ugliness can be charming.
Third, look at her picture in the upper left hand corner. She's not stunningly beautiful, but she's not exactly been cheated of feature by dissembling nature. Dogs probably do not bark as she halts by them. Her parents weren't lying to her. If she really thinks she's ugly and it has twisted her up inside like this, that's a problem with her not with society.
"they're"
I'm beautiful. I don't have to be smart.
We should tell girls the truth: ?Beautiful? is bullshit, a standard created to make women into good consumers, too busy wallowing in self-loathing to notice that we?re second class citizens.
HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA
This bimbo has obviously never heard of "Cleopatra"
Wow are these people stupid.
A rhetorical fist and a real smile..
Sorry, some people need beatin'.
I think Jessica could use some anger management therapy. Aanybody want to donate? Ferris? Anyone?
All done, with a link to that 2006 blog post: 'Feminist Jessica Valenti, Who's Not Unattractive, Berates Teenager Who Had Corrective Surgery After Being Bullied'.
Thanks Ann!
...trying to thread her upbringing between the hot princess culture and the androgynous harridan culture...
Actually, it's simpler than that -- trying to thread her between the parents who let their daughters walk the malls wearing short-shorts that have "J-U-I-C-Y" across the seat and those who think $800 prom dresses are appropriate.
AllieOop said...
Remind me to be more grateful for not being mutilated and subject to honor killing, 'cause ya know we really really need to be soooo grateful.
We could pass the hat and send Oop to Somalia or Iran for a year.
He/She/It might remove the /sarc tag then.
Well, we got angry black women already. Might as well have angry white women as well.
Though, I don't see the ABW feeling all that much better for all the fists thrown, whether metaphorically or for realz.
In fact, angry = ugly.
Because if there's one thing this country is short on, it is angry women with a sense of entitlement and persecution.
Angry, sullen and jug-eared is no way to go through life, girl.
Jug ears alone are not much of a disability, but add on a personality disorder and you can guarantee a woman hated by all.
When will women figure out you can't negotiate with standards of attractiveness?
No matter how much you pound your fist and insist it's all a social construct, you won't change anything. It's all unicorns and fairy dust.
We do not NEED to be grateful to men to live in a modern civilized country in which we are equal citizens under the law. We are not " given " this "privilege" any more than men are not given the privilege of living in a safe society, we just do, because we are LUCKY.
Safety from religous and cultural danger is a norm for this country.
We could be grateful to God, or to fate.
"No matter how much you pound your fist and insist it's all a social construct, you won't change anything. "
'Cue the sun', sez Valenti.
Mean girls are way worse on "ugly ducklings" than boys are. I had a terrible time in junior high and high school with mean girls. The guys were mostly pretty kind.
Fast forward to a couple of high school reunions later and hahahaHA! It's kind of fun to go back home. Now. (This seems like a good place to plug Romy and Michele's HS Reunion. I love that movie!)
But seriously, I identified with the idea of growing into your face. It can take time, and often ugly ducklings turn out to be real beauties. A couple of gals from my HS class turned into knockouts well after HS - and without surgery. It is most important to develop strength of character and inner beauty, and I agree that sometimes taking a while to grow into your looks can kind of force you to you do that. But to counteract bullying with anger and fists? No. Please, no.
When I looked at the pic of this young girl, I truly did not see her ears at first. I had to read about them. I'm not saying that this organization was wrong to donate the surgery. Just that I saw a cute girl in both pics.
Might as well have angry white women as well.
Not exactly manning the barricades, if you ask me.
(h/t to 'Donald Douglas')
Valenti: So let?s teach girls to survive a misogynist culture -
Not prostrating yourself before a serial sexual offender like Bill Clinton would be a good start....
[Valenti is the one who posed like a Monica-wannabe for a Clinton luncheon photo op]
AllieOop wrote We are not " given " this "privilege" any more than men are not given the privilege of living in a safe society, we just do, because we are LUCKY.
You and your tumbling dice meme.
We do not NEED to be grateful to men...
Who said anything about "men"? I was standing up for "this f*cked-up country". Fightin' words from little miss white wedding.
Although, Oop, it wouldn't hurt if you gals would pick up a check every once in a while.
Furious, I was more disturbed by Ken's comment @4:48 and my response was actually directed to him.
Who said anything about "men"? I was standing up for "this f*cked-up country". Fightin' words from little miss white wedding.
Although, Oop, it wouldn't hurt if you gals would pick up a check every once in a while.
--------------------
That's why god invented McDonald's, so you can take a gal out and not have to spend any money.
We?re saying that being beautiful is something worth having when we should be telling them a culture that demands as much is toxic.
Biology and evolution disagree with you. Look down. There is no reason for human females to have protuberant breasts (other than when breastfeeding). No other primate does.
AllieOop: We are not " given " this "privilege" any more than men are not given the privilege of living in a safe society, we just do, because we are LUCKY.
Sorry, but the only reason you are free today is because of White Males.
Doesn't the current President have ears like that? Yet some women still swoon.
Or, are we not supposed to mention that?
Ahhh, misogyny.
And you're not created equal, else you wouldn't have been so easily oppressed for at least the last 200,000 years.
Compared to men, women are more likely to graduate from high school and college. They are less likely to be victims of violent crime, less likely to be imprisoned, and less likely to die on the job. They live longer, receive more attention from the health care industry, and research into their ailments is lucratively funded compared to boring male-oriented stuff like prostate cancer. They are never required to fight to defend this country in wartime and are less likely to choose military, police, or firefighting work as a career. They are the presumptive winner in child custody disputes and can choose either a career or stay at home parenting without social stigma. Popular mythology notwithstanding, they make the same pay for the same work that men do.
Oh, but many people (including the vast majority of women) prefer looking at pretty female faces to looking at ugly ones. Also, while 99.9997% of men are not CEOs of large corporations, the figure for women is 99.99999%.
So let's GET MAD at how terribly awful it is to be a woman in America. :)
And you're not created equal, else you wouldn't have been so easily oppressed for at least the last 200,000 years.
-------------------
Equality in America means equality before the law, recognized as a full person.
Quit trolling.
I'm well aware that women are to be treated equally before the law. I'm talking about Valenti's (and Allie's) ignorance of history and science.
Idiots' Guide to Getting Attention:
Profanity to indicate outrage. Check.
Nonspecific slagging of the nation.
Check.
Threat of violence that no one takes seriously to indicate outrage for realsies.
Check.
Complaint about "the culture." *
Check.
Identity group whinging and exaggeration.**
Check.
Stoking of class resentment.
Check.
*Note that culture doesn't matter until it matters and then it matters until it doesn't. Just ask a Palestinian.
**Jessica? Did your rich parents pay for a nose job?
A half an hour ago a shop owner's wife entered the shop just as I was leaving, and man does she ever look great, so I said that. Her husband said, "oh she always looks great." Isn't that a nice thing for a husband to say? I go enthusiastically, "You must be a trophy wife!" Which caused everybody in the place to fall silent wondering, wtf what a clumsy thing to say, and the husband said, "I think that's a complement" and I continued. "Or the brains of organization. Daaaamn. Trophy and brains, Dude, you totally lucked out." She beamed. Everybody laughed. And she is putty in my hands. Look, mush mush squish mush mush squish mush. Putty.
Does all this anger mean Valenti is gonna shoot up a theater?
Should we inform the local cops?
Can they get a new pair of tits?
Re: Fen:
Biology and evolution disagree with you. Look down. There is no reason for human females to have protuberant breasts (other than when breastfeeding). No other primate does.
I think that's because other primates have those protruding snouts. That said, you're probably right that there has been some sexual selection in favour of more pronounced secondary sexual characteristics in females. This process of selection for physical differentiation has proceeded further in some populations than in others:
?It?s actually more difficult to determine the gender of a skeleton from the Viking era,? says Harvig. ?The men?s skulls were a little more feminine and the women?s skulls a little more masculine than what we?re seeing today. Of course, this doesn?t apply to all skeletons from the Viking period, but generally it?s quite difficult to determine the gender of a Viking Age skeleton.?
I don't compliment a women's brains but I have been known to say, "great tits" and they seem thrilled.
Jay:
Good God, will one of you pansy leftist men take this naive little girl out and get her drunk and give her a orgasm?
Next sentence:
Note how ugly inside these people are.
Completely unaware.
Shocking more women don't vote GOP.
And its not a female-beauty issue. I had a male friend in high school who had his ears "pinned" back too.
But of course, the feminists have to make it about something more than teenagers of BOTH sexes not wanting to look goofy.
Also, gentlemen and ladies, please do not take every story featuring an idiot female saying idiotic things as your cue to start complaining about women generally and giving instructions to the ladies on proper appreciation and deportment. Frankly, you sound like a feminist. That's not a compliment. You're only annoying friends and potential friends.
But I like to complain about women. Generally. =)
@garage: Valenti's "So let?s teach girls to survive a misogynist culture with a fist, not a smile" is pretty fugly. You yourself sported that "fist" thing during the Wisconsin recall. I always took that to mean you supported the violent thug aspect of that still-seething conflict.
_________________
I see from her Wiki bio that Valenti has a daughter so I'll have to retract what I wrote @4:53. I just hope that Valenti doesn't do to her daughter what Ann Gaylor did to hers. Hatred is hereditary.
Hmmm...so Vikings were really girly men. Guess those horned helmets were just a form of compensation...
The girl had a backwoodsy angularity to her face. The surgeon not only trimmed her ears, he also softened her nose and chin. If the girl now feels better about herself and therefore happier and therefore more open to the world, which will most likely return the sentiment, well, then the surgeon did her a great service.
It's called the pursuit of happiness, something that drives the Valentis mad, probably with envy.
In a lot of ways I?m glad I was considered unattractive as a kid?there is an upside to ugly. I developed a sharp sense of humor, a defense against the taunts. I thought more deeply about how good and bad people can be. I started writing. I found feminism.
Rush Limbaugh said...
?Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society.?
Interesting thread, and topic. I have three daughters, two with graduate degrees, two who speak other languages, and one who carries a gun.
Somewhere I missed the anger part of it. I feel sorry for these women who are unhappy on the country that offers them the best deal life has to offer a woman since Eve.
Childish doesn't cover it.
A charity that provides pro-bono cosmetic surgery. Some procedures that might be considered discretionary, but others -- cleft palates -- that prevent a lifetime of misery.
And others for kids around the world, too?
What "...a f*cked-up country to grow up in", indeed.
From the article: "In a lot of ways I?m glad I was considered unattractive as a kid?there is an upside to ugly....I found feminism."
She has that in common with every feminist I know.
But anyway, what did that ugly hag expect? She seems oblivious to the fact that her push for social justice--with a sense of humor!--made the Baby Face Foundation possible. Charities used to, you know, feed the hungry and care for the sick. Now the government does all that and people have charitable money burning a hole in their pocket. Gotta send it somewhere. I think I'll start a charity to give balloons to giraffes. From the article it looks like someone's already giving them nosejobs.
"Shocking more women don't vote GOP."
Shall we pick out some quotes from bill maher? Shocking all women don't vote Democrat.
Seriously Garage. What happened. Your turning into the David Letterman of this blog. Unfunny, bitter. You used to have SOME game. Ever since the recall election its like you stopped trying.
I always took that to mean you supported the violent thug aspect of that still-seething conflict.
The thugs were looking out from the Capitol, not looking in.
garage mahal said...
Completely unaware.
Completely unable to comprehend.
Idiot
Shocking more women don't vote GOP.
Married women vote Republican, idiot.
Oh total bullshit, I never voted Republican.
Hey, the MALE Mayor of NYC just declared baby formula a controlled substance.
Where are all the "pro choice" feminists declaring outrage at this?
Our little babe Jessica has a baby, why isn't she screeching about this clear example of misogyny?
The thugs were looking out from the Capitol, not looking in.
Still seething I see.
Jessica is totally full of shit. She plays it as if she was an ugly duckling. Maybe, like all adolescents, she was insecure about her looks.
Fact is she is a very attractive 28 year old Italian-American brunette with a successful husband, a masters degree from Rutgers, a career and a young daughter. She looks very good in her various publicity photos, and I don't think it's photoshop that makes her so. Her good looks are not completely incidental to her successes.
It's really just a particularly disgusting version of I've got mine. She's entitled to her opinion that homely girls should be satisfied with their situation, but she really should shut the fuck up about this.
Mayor Bloomberg does need to cool it with his interference in the health choices of the citizens of New York. The substances are not illegal drugs and none of his business.
Having said that breast feeding Is the better, healthier choice and mothers can still bottle feed formula, nurses will be signing it out now, that's all.
AllieOop said...
Oh total bullshit, I never voted Republican.
Come on Allie. Try it. Just this one time. You know you want to. No one will ever know. Just your little secret. You and Mitt.
David, I will say this, I'm not voting for Obama, I don't trust him anymore.
AllieOop said...
Oh total bullshit, I never voted Republican.
You're either kidding or more close minded that I thought.
No Chickelit, I'm not kidding, why should I have voted Republican when I didn't like the candidate and felt he would be wrong for the country? I didn't say I always voted Democratic, now did I?
I have a friend who was a successful plastic surgeon in NYC. Part of his practice was reconstruction from trauma. Another part was making women look better, or helping them to think they did.
He also for over 30 years spent 5 weeks a year in either India or South America doing cleft palate procedures on impoverished kids.
Maybe Jessica would like to opine on that too. How deformed do you have to be to merit charitable surgery? She seems to have all the answers.
There is a connection between this post and the previous Aurora post.
It has to do with American exceptionalism... the idea that we can do anything, a trait which up until recently was considered a good thing.
That can-do spirit, so much in our DNA, it became clich?... "If we can put a man on the moon" why cant we this and why cant we that?
This uniquely American idea has propelled us to believe that anything is possible if we only have the imagination to think of something...
If you are an "ugly" duckling - there must be something we can do...
If you are a "crazy" student who wants to shoot up a movie theater and do - there must be something we could have done.
Chick, did you ever vote for a democrat?
I have voted for republicans many times. Mitt Romney, Bill Weld, Rudy, Paul Cellucci, Scott Brown-they are all considered Rhinos though. They would be democrats in most states because of their social stances, although Mitt's have changed.
I don't vote the party, I vote the candidate. John Silber-I think was his name was a democrat for governor in Mass and I certainly didn't vote for him, he was gross.
Also, I vote for women with nice tits, doesn't matter the party.
tits.
Allie, the baby killer,
cause ya know we really really need to be soooo grateful.
You could've been aborted by someone like you. And yes, to appreciate what you have is to think about how much worse things could be. But being a good little lefty, all you see is how you think things should be, instead of just how awesome things are compared to how shitty things used to be just 100 years ago.
Even at the ripe old age of sixty something, it's not too late for you to grow up and appreciate what you've got, instead of pissing and moaning about all the stuff you don't.
Hmmm, wait a minute I may have voted for a stray Republican in local elections, IIRC.
Thanks for reminding me Titus.
Allie, the baby killer,
We are not " given " this "privilege" any more than men are not given the privilege of living in a safe society
This is patently false. Men are responsible for the safe society in which women live. Women are definitively NOT responsible for it.
Ken, there is something seriously wrong with you.
Also, Ken, when have you ever heard me pissing and moaning about this country?
Married women vote Republican, idiot.
As if single women are less worthy than married women in your mind. And as if ALL married women vote Republican. What an asshole. And a great strategy on top of that:
The poll numbers are worse for Romney among women. In Pennsylvania, Obama leads him among females by a 59 to 35 percent margin; in Florida, 51 to 44; and in Ohio, 58 to 37.
Tea Party wingnut governors ain't proving to be much of an asset in the big swing states either, are they, Jaytard?
